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The weakest link when TSHTF
I think health care is the weakest link in the chain and will be the first thing to fall apart.
I was looking around the ER last night at work. We had a 6 hour waiting time. There have been days its been as long as 11 hours. The lobby was full of sick people waiting , waiting, waiting. Tempers flare when the wait gets that long as people don't understand a heart attack or stroke has to take precedent over their sinus infection or their child's ear infection. In short the Er's in the US are reaching a critical stage and many are ready to break. The working conditions at our ER became so tense during flu season last year we had six nurses quit in one night. Can you imagine what will happen if there is a small epidemic let alone something serious? The Hospitals will not be able to handle it. I don't really have any answers. My personal plan includes collecting and storing both needed pharmaceutical supplies and herbal remedies. Don't over look Veterinary supplies when doing this. Sometimes you can order products that would normally be prescription online. The quality on Veterinary products is good but do your homework anyway. Self medicating or medicating a relative is not something to be taken lightly but it might be the only choice we have at some point. Learning some basic medical skills now would be a good idea. |
Re: The weakest link when TSHTF
Take away the govt entitlement programs, and I suspect 50-75% of those in the ER wouldn't be there.....the colds, the flu, etc, that basically nothing can be done but take some aspirin, drink fluids, rest and ride it out. So instead of people expecting somebody in a white lab coat has a magic pill for all ills, they would do what people used to do and use some common sense.
The slightly more ill that have some sort of treatable infection could learn to deal with a family doctor again, either in barter or PMs...... And that would leave ER's for what ER's are supposed to be: real emergency, life threatening repairs.......just like they used to be before they became a replacement for primary health care. When the Hiladabeast takes control next year, you can look for it to get far worst before the final collapse. |
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Andy, don't get me started. The bottom line is people use the ER like a free clinic because they can not legally be turned away if they can not pay. We are drowning in head colds, ear infections menstrual cramps and rashes.
The things we see dealy would boggle the mind because the abuse of the ER has become ludicrous. Unfortunately the situation is what is and the reality is we have to live with it and I struggle daily with not trying to make judgments. Until the whole health care system can be revamped we each have to take action to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Andy edited to add God help us when Hilary gets hold of the health system. |
Re: The weakest link when TSHTF
Stay healthy, you do not what to be sick when the SHTF.
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I can tell you right now .if this had been a state of emergency/martial law type event those nurses would have been MANDATED TO STAY AND ARRESTED IF THEY TRIED TO LEAVE AND IF THEY DIDNT COMPLY THEY WOULD BE STRIPPED OF THEIR LISCENCE AND SENT TO THE NEAREST FEMA CAMP!! There are excutive orders on the books right now that have strict rules on hospitals remaining open and severe penalties if staff attempts to abandon there post.. I dont have a link....... but I saw something a while ago about it ...it was REALLY scary stuff. When the Blackwater goons and the shocktroops need to be treated.....there is no, I AM NOT ON SHIFT RIGHT NOW...... I will try to dig some stuff up if I can T |
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Twisted Avatar, the night the nurses quit all finished their shifts but one. I don't think legal action can be taken if they finish the shift.
The working conditions were HORRIBLE. The reason for the mass exodus on that occasion was fear. The under staffing was so horrendous and staff so overloaded that there was genuine fear of killing or harming patients. That was a unique situation, a perfect storm for disaster. It was flu season, the hospital across town decided to stop taking a major Insurance and we got flooded with their Patients. They also installed a complicated new computer system that day. It was total chaos. One Dr got on top of counter and shouted for everyone to halt work and for the Hospital Administrator to be called in stat. All that and there was no epidemic or pandemic. It was real eye opener for me as to how fragile the system was. |
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Yada yada yada......staff can get 'sick' too....little soap under your arms to cause an elevated temp, little Ipecac to make nice mess on the floor, and heck..."I got the flu too !"
Orders are a lot easier to write than to enforce. |
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Yes that sounds pretty bad ..and it dose seem like a few one time events didnt help the situation. Im glad those nurses finished there shift.....but my point still stands...... those nurses that left that day and said they are not coming back would have had severe penalties....if I remember one of them was a 1000 DOLLAR A DAY FINE TILL YOU COME BACK TO WORK. Im sorry I cant find that article but I will look it up.you really have to see it for yourself ....it looks like something straight out of a horror flick But you are very much correct....it can all fall apart in the blink of a eye.... prep as best you can ......cause my feeling is the next 911 will be a virus (HN-51?)type thing that is going to swamp the hospitals..... Fragile ......would be a understatement T |
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Trust me, don't want to go to those concentration camps when TSHTF. We like to think our medicine is so advanced and technological, but most MD's don't know anything outside of what they're told by big pharma and hospital policy. I ran into a doctor the other day that didn't know why they were giving a certain drug (she preferred another drug) for a patient but she was giving it anyway. What we call health care in the states is a complete joke.
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Re: The weakest link when TSHTF
When there is a flu epidemic the staff is not immune. We are on the front lines and our staff got hit hard too. There is a strong division in health care workers. Those who come to work sick and those who don't. We are told to stay home knowing full well that under certain situations there will be no one to work if we do. On that occasion there were many employees at work who were sick themselves. I have worked sick on many occasions as have many other staff members. We wear masks and gloves to protect the Patients and just get through it.
As far as the nurses who quit their jobs were easily replaced. There is a serious nursing shortage.. The question brings up a serious moral question for health care workers. Should those nurses be under legal obligation to return to work when they thought working conditions were dangerous to Patients????? That incident happened exactly a year ago. With the computer and medication chaos I still wonder how many mistakes were made that week and how many patients were damaged. |
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when doc's are in med school 90% of there books are written by the PHRAMA companies and evey other page is a advertisment for a new pill ...... they dont know how to treat but how to prescribe a pill This can be traced back to when Rockerfeller and Carnagie's took over the medical schools at the turn of century .....prior to that there where THOUSANDS of HOMEOPATHIC DR's IN AMERICA TRAINED IN BOTANY AND MEDICINAL HERBS. Sad T |
Re: The weakest link when TSHTF
Martian don't be so quick to judge. You are correct that Doctors are the sum total of their training. They are trained by the Pharmaceutical Companies now. Still many Dr's are kind, caring and devoted to the health of their Patients. The perception that all Dr's are rich and evil is not correct. Many sacrifice their personal lives for long hours at work. The price of malpractice insurance and education is astronomical. You don't become a Dr to get rich unless your a Beverly Hills plastic Surgeon.
The system is broken and corrupt but there are many devoted people in the system and they DO save lives. There is a place for emergency medicine and surgery even for us natural care enthusiast. Being totally closed to conventional medicine makes you as close minded as a Dr who refuses to look at holistic healing. There is a place for both. |
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What do you mean by "the weakest link"?
The first one to be disfunctional, the easiest to make disfunctional, the one whose disfunctionality is the most disruptive. To me it is the electrical grid. And when it goes down everything stops. Typically, it only goes down locally, or very rarely regionally so we don't ever see the effects of a large scenario. Some things will be effected right away; communications, water, fuel pumps, furnaces, etc Some over several days; food, waste treatment, police integrity will start to break down, the entire trucking system, farming(longet term, lack of fuel), refrigeration etc. These in turn will all affect health care. From what you are describing ceratin areas might already be disfunctional, but that's not due to a SHTF scenario. Right??? My two acorns SB |
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Twisted Avatar lets look at your statement.
"Without question......no argument there..... the Doc's in the states are nothing but legal drug pushers........ " I will not argue that but why has that happened? Where does the blame lie? Lets look at the other side of the spectrum. People want NO personal responsibility for their health. They go to the Dr and expect a pill that will make them better. That's what they want and that's what they get. Any health care worker will tell you that Patient compliance on diet, exercise, sleep and lifestyle is very, very poor. People don't want to change. You tell me exactly what a Dr is suppose to do with a patient who refuses to help themselves? |
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SB, here is what I mean by the weakest link. We can prepare. We can store food, water and have power and weapons. What happens if our kids comes down with appendicitis or even a simple strep throat. Without proper care we can lose them.
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I will ammend my statment....... Dr are trained in a enviroment where it is OPENLY ENCOURAGED and facilatated to the max that they should become drug pushers I work xray........ I have seen a decent dr's get pushed out the door because the dont want to push the "new pill" when the old one works just fine and it is cheaper.... any type of stand that is TRULY made for the patient is put down rather quickly by the establishment and the dr is made a example to others if they should decide to "get out of line" In term of Pt and health I agree they are hard headed but just like the dr's the traing started when they where tots and what they where told on TV so it becomes a self fufilling prophecy about how pt can be so ignorant of there health.........just look where the majority get there education from. It is a mutlifaceted problem....... but one thing is clear..... you better have a basic understanding of how to take care of yourself cause if there are any disruption in the status quo (which it will be ) there will be a world of hurt in store for you and yours. T |
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I agree with you though. I've often wondered if I would have lived without modern medicines and I'm very healthy. I've also wondered if modern medicine has weakened us genetically by keeping less than ideal specimens alive to reproduce, rather than having nature enact it's course. I know, sounds kinda, well, "nazi" ish. But, we will once again be thrust into this scenario and the ones who suvive will be the stronger. I remember my Grandfather saying there was nothing wrong with marrying a woman with ample hips. I thought that was the strangest thing. But now having had kids it does make sense. Back in his day death during childbirth wasn't uncommon. But, do to modern medicine, many of the concepts that were deemed imortant in the old days have been forgotten, made fun of, or would now be "politically incorrect". To even think this way would be considered "bad taste". I'm rambling. SB |
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And I'm not saying physicians are evil, greedy people. Not at all. Most of them are good, honest people, and that's the problem. They put a facade of pleasantness on a system that is IMO inherently evil. Doctors are complaisant because they supposedly help people and are making good money and they're backed by the religion of science. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. |
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SB, I did some reading on elderberry last year. Its a well respected remedy. Here is an interesting link on it. http://www.healthyworldstore.com/ind...&productId=123
I have used homeopathy for 2 decades now. I branched out into herbs and supplements about a decade ago. We handle most health issues that way but sometimes you have to go a step further and cautiously enter the health care system. Your right, many of us would be dead if it were not for modern medicine and we need to merge the two systems and use the best of both. You are correct that we have spawned dreaded new age diseases from modern medicine MRSA or super staff is one of them. My daughter has one of the new age diseases. Many of the new age diseases are spawned by vaccines, modified foods, antibiotics and a general deterioration of the auto immune system that we are seeing so much of in the younger generation. LOL... about a womans big hips. It is always politically incorrect to discuss the size of a woman's butt and a subject most men would do better to stay away from. I mean how do you politely tell a woman that when you were picking a mate her large hips [or fat ass] was a plus in her favor. :laugh: :rofl: |
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:rolleyes_m: Posted by Squirrel Bait:
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I recently had an eye opening discussion with the Vice President of the commercial division of my company's electrical utility provider. I won't mention names...but they are one of the top ten largest utility companies in North America...so they carry a BIG STICK. In the event of a civil disturbance or natural disaster Homeland Security and/or FEMA will demand ALL ELECTRICAL POWER be cut to all designated areas they consider a threat. I didn't say to save people from electrical hazards...I said threat. Very interesting word there... T-H-R-E-A-T ...that spells blackout any way you cut it. Hospitals,all business,all homes...that means you. I got the idea either the utility company cuts the power off immediately as ordered or their personnel will be shot and replaced with government flunkies who follow orders. The VP wouldn't exactly go into the details because he said that info was considered treason if they found out where it came from. I got the idea they scared the hell out of him and he had better sense than to discuss the issue any further,so I dropped it. Most hospitals have emergency back up generators on site. If yours doesn't they are basically screwed. TPTB could care less about a few hundred hospital patients that might expire because the juice was cut off. They want command and control as quickly as possible and aren't afraid to isolate a problem area by pulling the plug for weeks if they have to. They are not as dumb as some people think they are. :bear_w00t::D:bear_w00t: |
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That was basically the point that Mr Giffin was making in response of gubbermint to katrina..... They could have helped people at the Astro Dome days before...but where instructed to stand pat ...and whoever died,well they just died. Command and control was paramount. another good reason to get your hand on at least TWO generators with mutiple jerry cans. T |
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SB..LOL You stepped into that one!!
Here you go Lt Dan.. When a Woman Asks if she is Fat Instructions For Men Introduction Every woman asks the question. Every man dreads having to answer. Follow these instructions and everyone ends up happy. Instructions Difficulty: Moderately Easy Things You'll Need Simply to keep your nerve. Steps 1-Step One Remain calm. Above all, you must appear to be telling the truth. Law enforcement officials are trained to observe certain behaviors about liars. Keep it casual but confident. Step Two-NEVER appear to stall for an answer. Stalling will put any answer you give in the worst possible light. If you stall, stammer, or stumble, you have already lost. Give up; your day or your evening is ruined. Instead, prepare, practice, and rehearse the correct answer so that it rolls from your tongue as naturally as possible. . Step Three-Here�s the secret: men want peace, woman want love. Men, if you want peace, you need to understand the �Do I look fat?� question is NOT AT ALL ABOUT whether they look fat. All they want to know is: �DO I LOOK BEAUTIFUL TO YOU?� |
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Think of staying in good practice as a way of reducing the need for unnecessary treatments therefore less strain on emergency rooms :) Dave |
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I am keeping this one!!!.....this is worth its weight in gold alone!!! Kudos J!!! T |
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Lt Dan, when my Husband brings me flowers I always wonder what he has done too. I just don't voice it but I sure do wonder. The bigger the flowers the more I wonder.
Your wife sounds thrifty, a tad suspicious and a little insecure. I think I would like her. :D In all seriousness I know a big issue between men and women is that men feel like their wives are never satisfied and nothing they do is ever quite enough. Blame it on the female brain. We remember everything bad you did even if it happened thirty years ago. It goes into our memory chips and is stored for instant recall at any moment. For some reason we seem to have better recall on the bad stuff then the good. Maybe God designed the female brain like that because men forget so much. :tongue_ma: |
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Banjo you talk real big but I would LOVE to hear you say that to your wife or girlfriend. :laugh: edited to add maybe you are a woman? If so I will confess I sort of enjoy putting man in that position and watch the look on his face when he struggles for the right answer. :) |
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Eventually they stop asking. |
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